MAILBOX “… the glory that I had with you”

Published in Pasugo-God's Message, MAILBOX section, Dec 2006


“… the glory that I had with you”

I STILL CAN’T understand why the Church of Christ utterly denies Christ’s pre-existence when the Savior Himself taught that He existed with the Father even before the world was made. In one of His prayers to the Father, Christ said, “… glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made” (John 17:5, emphasis added). Kindly notice the verb used (“had”) which is in the past tense form and the point in time referred to (“before the world was made”). Isn’t it obvious that Jesus had pre-existence? Doesn’t it prove also that Christ is indeed God?

Leonard Woo
Seattle, Washington

Editor’s reply:
If we were to agree with such line of reasoning, then we would be compelled to accept, too, that Apostle Paul and the Christians also had pre-existence and must also be Gods. In his letter to the Christians in Ephesus, the Apostle Paul wrote thus:

“Thus he chose us in Christ before the world was made to be holy and faultless before him in love,” (Eph. 1:4, New Jerusalem Bible, emphasis ours)

Take note of the verb “chose” which is also in the past tense form and the very same phrase “before the world was made” as the point of reference. Would you say then that Paul and the Christians had pre-existence and are therefore Gods, too?

Is it true that Jesus had been corporeally existing even before the foundation of the world like the way you’ve interpreted the verse? Apostle Peter, one of Christ’s true disciples, has this teaching regarding our Lord Jesus which would enlighten us in this issue thus:

“Foreknown, indeed, before the foundation of the world, he has been manifested in the last times for your sakes.” (I Pet. 1:20, Confraternity Version, emphasis ours)

Christ was foreknown before the foundation of the world. If Christ had already been existing before the foundation of the world, then there would not be any need to “foreknow” Him, so to speak. Thus, the fact that He was foreknown before the foundation of the world proves that during that time, He did not exist yet.

In what sense then did Christ have the glory from God “before the world was made” (John 17:5) if He was not yet existing then? To answer this, it would be helpful to address also the related question: In what sense did God choose the Christians “before the world was made” (Eph. 1:4) if they were not yet existing then? The answer to this is found just in the succeeding verse:

God planned long ago that we become His own sons through Jesus Christ. This would please God; it is what He wanted.” (Eph. 1:5, Simple English Bible, emphasis ours)

It is clear therefore that “God chose” His people “before the world was made” (Eph. 1:4) in the sense that He “planned long ago” or “destined” (Revised Standard Version) them to be His children. Take note that it does not in any way mean that those people pre-existed and are Gods.

In the same manner, Christ “had” the glory “before the world was made” (John 17:5) neither because He had pre-existence nor is He God but because it had been in God’s plan or foreknowledge before the foundation of the world (I Pet. 1:20, CV) that “all things … that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers … [be] created through Him [Christ] and for Him” (Col. 1:16). “Before the world was made, God chose Christ” (I Pet. 1:20, SEB) and “He was destined” (I Pet. 1:20, RSV) to have such glory, though He, like the Christians, was not yet existing during that time. In fact, the Bible proves that the plan of God concerning the sending forth of Jesus Christ found fulfillment only when Christ was born of a woman named Mary:

“But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law.” (Gal. 4:4, New King James Version)

“This is how Jesus Christ came to be born. His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph; but before they came to live together she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.” (Matt. 1:18, NJB)

This is the beginning of Christ’s corporeal existence, in the same way that God’s people started to exist only when they were born, though God already had a plan to adopt them as His children “even before the world was made.”

For you to realize that you cannot validly use John 17:5 to prove your belief that Christ had pre-existence and that He is God, please consider the preceding verses in that chapter. In John 17:1 and 3, it is stated quite clearly how our Lord Jesus Christ Himself proved that the Father, not He, is the only true God:

“Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: ‘Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,

“’And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent’.” (NKJV, emphasis ours)